S Sorry about the alignment of the first page. Here it is again.
S Some thoughts from Sam,
T The bible (Jn. 1:29 ‘Look, the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world’) teaches th th that Christ has died for every human being, and as the lamb of God, he has bore the sin o of the entire world. All our sins were taken away when Jesus died on the cross for us 2000 y years ago.
H How is this forgiveness given to me in the here and now?
T Thus, the bible also teaches that through the gospel, God delivers this forgiveness to me in th the here and now. For example, ‘As we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will f forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness’ (1 John 1:9). The following p passages connect the two:
R Romans 5:19 ‘Through the obedience of one the man (on the cross 2000 yrs ago), the m m many will be made righteous (now).’
2 1 Cor. 5:19 ‘that God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself , not counting people’s sisins against them. And he has commited to us (now) the message of reconciliation’
R Rom. 4:25 ‘He was delivered over to death for our sins but was raised to life for our ( present) justification’ (ie. the risen Christ justifies us here and now on the basis of his s sacrificial death for our sins)
H How is what Jesus accomplished for me 2000 years ago applied to me now? Isn’t it through GGod’s living word proclaimed to me here and now by the power of the Holy Spirit?
When did our justification take place? 2000 years ago on the cross or when it was delivered p personally to me through the living and active word of Christ. (Romans 10) What does it mean that we are ‘justified by God’s grace, because of Christ’s sacrificial death, th through faith’? (Romans 3:21-26) Doesn’t this mean that faith was given to us by th the word of Christ and that this same faith received Christ’s justification as he came to u us through this same word.
H How can the following two statements be true?
1 1) When Christ died 2000 yrs ago, God forgave all sins of all sinners. whether or not a anyone believes this now.
2 2) God in Christ comes to people through his word right now and forgives them their sins on th the basis of his sacrificial death for their sins 2000 years ago. They receive this forgiveness a as a complete gift through the gift of faith (which is itself created by God’s word).
D Do you teach that everyone has received the forgiveness of their sins?
Martin Luther’s tract, ‘Against the Heavenly Prophets distinguishes between what God didid on the cross ‘for our forgiveness’ and where God ‘gives this forgiveness to us now’:
‘ We treat the forgiveness of sins in two ways. First, how it is achieved…Second, how it is di distributed and given to us. Christ has achieved it on the cross, it is true. But he has not di distributed or given it on the cross…he has distributed and given it through the word, as also in the gospel, where it is preached. He has [achieved]…it once and for all on the cross, but the didistribution takes palce continuously…If now I seek the forgiveness of sins, I do not run to the c cross, for I will not find it given there. But I will find in the…gospel the word which distributes, p presents…and gives to me the forgiveness which was [achieved]…on the cross.’ (Luthers WWorks: Volume 40, pages 213, 214).
Forgiveness, like salvation, is both an objective reality and a subjective reality. We were forgiven and saved at the cross 2,000 years ago but we do not experience this salvation or forgiveness until we respond in faith.
Good point, 'forgiveness, like salvation, is both an objective reality and a subjective reality.'
So: we WERE forgiven and saved at the cross 2,000 years ago, we ARE forgiven and saved now as the word of Christ comes to us, and we WILL BE saved and forgiven when Christ is revealed.'
What did you mean when you said: 'we do not experience this salvation or forgiveness until we respond in faith.'
We have to be careful when we say, 'God won't do this...until we' because it is always God who takes the initiative, not us. The question is, what comes first: God's grace or our faith? It has to be God's grace. When we were dead, Jesus came to us through his word of forgiveness and salvation and made us alive. He did this before we could ever respond in faith. Faith is never a work of ours, but an complete gift that is given to us, as you said. Faith is a complete gift given to us through God's word. This is an emphasis that needs to be stressed to Christians who think that their faith is THEIR faith, i.e. they see it as their work, not God's gift.
I think people don't know that they are loved, saved and forgiven until they are told AND they actually believe it. We know they are loved, saved and forgiven and that everything is okay and will be okay. But if they don't know it or believe it, it's not okay in the here and now of their personal experience, because they live as if they are unloved, unsaved and unforgiven.
Nearly all believers who came to know God in their adult lives say they wished they had known sooner. Heck, I wished I had heard of the Torrances and Baxter sooner and I heard Baxter in my 30s!
Of course, there is this large group of people you and I know about who know and believe they are loved, saved and forgiven but who also believe those other people are unloved, unsaved and unforgiven.
That thinking requires a different kind of conversion.
